MS, you're not bearing all! Come clean about Program Manager in Win10!

[John Spencer Yantiss]

Okay, it's been now over a month since "Program Manager," supposedly dead for years, began cropping up in Windows 10. I am not the only one to have been hit by this anomaly, but MS tech support reps deny that it exists, and offer inane suggestions, none of which have worked, for me or any of the others who have discovered this holdover from OS/2 and Win 3.1 days. Okay MS, when are you going to admit that you still have ancient code still lurking around the innards of Windows 10? Why should I have to put up with slowing "Shut Down" and "Reboot?" Because you've "got me," and I have no other choice? Uh, think again. If such issues persist, and grow, even after this "all new" release, i.e., Win 10, it is entirely possible for me and others to in fact make the migration to Apple. I don't want to. I am too used to Windows for that to be an easy choice, but how 'bout you ending your misleading claims, and building a truly NEW Windows "shell," instead of relying on the legacies of DOS!!!!

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

And, O, by the way, the nefarious Program Manager that no longer exists--at least to the blind folk at MS--only reemerged, reared its ugly head, in Win10 after the last big "Update." As the ol' country preacher (as portrayed by Wendy Bagwell) said to a companion, upon finding himself in the church service of a snake-handling congregation: "Reckon where they want one [as in door]?" Okay, MS: Regarding an exit door for all of your genius developers, "Reckon where you can find one?"

 

[davehc]

MS should be aware of it, but it is not part of Windows 10. It is included with Logitech/setpoint devices. Logitech apparently, to date, have nothing to say on the issue.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

MS should be aware of it, but it is not part of Windows 10. It is included with Logitech/setpoint devices. Logitech apparently, to date, have nothing to say on the issue.

I have read that here and on several other Forum sites, but there is no Logitech/Setpoint device on my laptop, so that is not the cause. I suppose it is a cause, but if no Logitech/Setpoint device has been or is installed, it cannot be the cause. There are other things going on here, and as I noted above, the nefarious Program Manager did not begin appearing until after the last major update. When determining the cause of a problem one must consider all of the factors, and think systematically.

 

[davehc]

I can only add that it does appear to be only associated with Logitech.
I have run Windows 10, and its updates, and even one or two insider builds, since the birth of the OS. I have not seen this program on any of my computers.

 

[Trouble]

I have not seen this program on any of my computers.

Nor have I, but....
It's interestings and would like to understand how I can reproduce it. I'd love to see the old program manager applet, being overly nostalgic and all.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

Nor have I, but....
It's interestings and would like to understand how I can reproduce it. I'd love to see the old program manager applet, being overly nostalgic and all.

I wish that I could show you a screen shot! There is an infinitesimally brief "blip" of a window that opens on boot-up--which does not display long enough to capture by any means--and then when shutting down, there is the screen and message that a program is still running that needs to shut down before the computer will. I suppose it may be possible for me to take a picture of that with my cell phone, upload it to the laptop, and send that for you to see.

I have even downloaded a little applet which allows one even more control than the primary administrator's account, and deleted any and all instances of "Logitech" from the registry (I did several months ago have a Logitech mouse installed to try it out before giving it to my wife to use on her laptop, but the progman anomaly did not begin until the last big Win10 update. Why would any Logitech code only start causing problems after that? If it were Logitech, why would it only start after the Windows update? And, finally, since I have deleted all Logitech entries in the registry, what is left? Is there another repository other than the Registry and System32 folder(s) in which unwanted Logitech code could be lurking?

 

[davehc]

This might help to trace it:

Open a command prompt(Admin) and paste this.


for /F "tokens=*" %1 in ('wevtutil.exe el') DO wevtutil.exe cl "%1"

This will clear the event log entirely.

Reboot and immediately have a look at the event log and see if there is anything significant there.
By the way, maybe a little too simple. Have you looked under the start tab in the task manager, to see if there is anything there which might be causing the problem.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

This might help to trace it:

Open a command prompt(Admin) and paste this.


for /F "tokens=*" %1 in ('wevtutil.exe el') DO wevtutil.exe cl "%1"

This will clear the event log entirely.

Reboot and immediately have a look at the event log and see if there is anything significant there.
By the way, maybe a little too simple. Have you looked under the start tab in the task manager, to see if there is anything there which might be causing the problem.

Did the command line string, and looked in the Startup tab of Task Manager. There was a "Program" there with no "Publisher" given, and I disabled that.

However, as the guy said in the movie, Independence Day, "Target remains." I know that you disagree, but the fact remains (no pun initially intended) that the problem did not appear until after the last major Win10 update, never surfacing months ago when I installed, and uninstalled the Logitech mouse software. From purely empirical evidence, it is a Microsoft code-produced problem. Even if something occurred after the last major update, of which MS was unaware, they are absolutely aware of it now, and a real fix should be rolled out immediately. That is the reason why Apple has become what it is in the past 10-plus years: absolute focus on getting it right, without glitches, snafus, et alia. Whether or not they can maintain that level of developement and support, now that Jobs has left us, time will only tell; however, MS could have been there 25 years ago if the foundations of OS/2 had been bought, instead of insisting on sticking with MS-DOS.

 

[davehc]

That is , possibly, fair comment. (Do you work for Apple - lol)
Perhaps you should consider using an Apple instead of Windows.?
Have a read here:

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001238.htm
or google problems with Apple computers. Not a great deal of differences. I cannot comment further on that, as I have nil experience with Apple computers.

But, getting back to your ongoing bug, I would like to invite any members reading this thread, who should, naturally, all be Windows 10 users, to comment if they have experienced this.

P.S
"Did the command line string, and looked in the Startup tab of Task Manager. There was a "Program" there with no "Publisher" given, and I disabled that."
You should have looked in the event viewer, as I posted.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

That is , possibly, fair comment. (Do you work for Apple - lol)
Perhaps you should consider using an Apple instead of Windows.?
Have a read here:

http://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001238.htm
or google problems with Apple computers. Not a great deal of differences. I cannot comment further on that, as I have nil experience with Apple computers.

But, getting back to your ongoing bug, I would like to invite any members reading this thread, who should, naturally, all be Windows 10 users, to comment if they have experienced this.

Well, davehc, I already noted several posts back that I would not want to switch to Apple. I have been immersed in the Windows environment and usage since IBM ceased developement of OS/2 (enormous catastrophe for the computing world!), and have tried the Mac, et alia before. Perhaps MS should consider doing what they claim, instead of misleading loyal adherents to their products, instead of claiming that the underlying causes which crop up all the time are not in fact there.

Those who used and were absolutely sold on OS/2 (for many very, very good reasons) did not switch to Windows because they wanted to; they did so because in order to continue using PCs there was no choice. Having said all of that, my initial postulation still holds: If WinTel does not at least begin pulling itself ("it" being a plurality of one) together, sooner or later someone is going to come up with a better alternative. When Google flipflopped onto the stage, Yahoo, AltaVista, and even such forgettable creatures as DogPile, seemed to be the major players. No one, no one, is beyond replacement, either due to longevity, or even specialised expertise. It is all about delivering the best product(s) and, or service(s). MS could do that, but chooses to rely on its "ownership" of the market. U. S. Steel once owned the market, as did GM, as did GE, as did RCA, as did, and so on ad infinitum. Where is U. S. Steel today? Look hard!

 

[Cajunswabbie]

I agree it is in the system somewhere. A lot of times (not all) when shutting down my computer, I will get the msg "Program Manager" is keeping computer from shutting down. I have a choice of "Shutdown anyway" or "Cancel." Makes no difference which I choose, the computer goes ahead and shuts down. No Logitech devices ever installed. Running Windows 10 1511 (Build 10586.122). I can live with it.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

I agree it is in the system somewhere. A lot of times (not all) when shutting down my computer, I will get the msg "Program Manager" is keeping computer from shutting down. I have a choice of "Shutdown anyway" or "Cancel." Makes no difference which I choose, the computer goes ahead and shuts down. No Logitech devices ever installed. Running Windows 10 1511 (Build 10586.122). I can live with it.

Yeah, Cajunswabbie, I can live with it too, but I'd rather not, and there's no good reason why I should have to. For one thing, in the case of my laptop it's not just a delay in shutting down, but also in booting up--there is a millisecond blink of the Program Manager opening up on boot, but it delays everything else. For another, ever since progman showed up video & mouse performance have suffered. Even with 16 GB RAM, and an i7 processor, there are jitters and jumps in the mouse cursor, and in graphics loading properly. This is really a major bug somewhere in the innards of Windows. As I've noted, now at least 3 times, MS needs to "get with the program," and listen to its end-users. Ownership of the market can go away in a heartbeat; witness Oracle, Sun Microsystems, the ubiquitous Novel, and even the capitulation of IBM in the consumer realm. Nothing is written in stone.

 

[davehc]

One final thought, . Try a search for progman.exe, on your computer. If you find it, rename it by adding .bak at the end.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

One final thought, . Try a search for progman.exe, on your computer. If you find it, rename it by adding .bak at the end.

Thanks, dave, but that's one of the first things I did. No such blessing. It is too well hidden!

 

[davehc]

Darn.

I have been thinking that this could be , whilst associated, two problems here. I have to give up on the program manager. I only found one other "google " instance of it, in a Microsoft site. It was full of inconclusive waffle.
But, the delay on shut down?

I had an instance of this, quite a while ago. In the end, it was logic which led me to the solution. I have always been an Acronis user. By default, Acronis sets up a scheduled backup. Whilst this can be helpful, it is also a nuisance. I eventually discovered that it was the reason for the delay in shutting down. I disabled it and now do a regular manual backup. I have since found that several of the image backup programs have the same function.
Also effecting my shutdown was the search and associated index facility. I have a third party, and more efficient, search program running now and have disabled the MS default.
My shut down, on a standard HD, is, to all intents and purposes, now instant.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

Darn.

I have been thinking that this could be , whilst associated, two problems here. I have to give up on the program manager. I only found one other "google " instance of it, in a Microsoft site. It was full of inconclusive waffle.
But, the delay on shut down?

I had an instance of this, quite a while ago. In the end, it was logic which led me to the solution. I have always been an Acronis user. By default, Acronis sets up a scheduled backup. Whilst this can be helpful, it is also a nuisance. I eventually discovered that it was the reason for the delay in shutting down. I disabled it and now do a regular manual backup. I have since found that several of the image backup programs have the same function.
Also effecting my shutdown was the search and associated index facility. I have a third party, and more efficient, search program running now and have disabled the MS default.
My shut down, on a standard HD, is, to all intents and purposes, now instant.

No Acronis on my Lenovo (though my brother used to use it), besides which none of this accounts for the clearly visible window that appears for just a millisecond upon startup, fading into the desktop even faster, which anomaly accompanied the appearance of the message that the Program Manager is still running at shutdown. Dave, I truly do appreciate all of the thought and effort you have put into addressing the problem, but the reality is that Program Manager is still in the guts of Windows. See Cajunswabbie's post above? There are quite a few more such posts on MS/Win forums, and other tech sites.

I simply do not buy that another developer's program has inserted foul code onto my computer that produces messages with "Program Manager" contained in them. Further, there is no rational explanation for why it only started happening after the last major Win10 update, and the startup blip simultaneously. I know that the startup blip is indeed the long "dead" Program Manager starting up, but there is no "progman," no "prgmn," no "promn," or any other variation hidden that I can find anywhere, in the C-drive files, or in the registry. It is too well hidden, and God only knows why it is there at all, except that evidently there is much more DOS and other ancient remains left in Windows that MS will ever admit.

I have Norton Security and Malwarebytes (not the free edition) both running, and neither one finds any malware of any kind. Periodically Norton will announce that it has found a threat, but always cleans it up immediately. Unless there is some hacker somewhere who has written code just to harass Windows 10 users, Program Manager is still a deeply hidden part of Windows.

 

[davehc]

OK. The final solution. Transfer all your private data to a safe place and make a completely fresh install of the OS
But. maybe with a little interaction, you and the other poster could possibly find an association with your computers which could account for it. Frankly, regarding your other comment, after two or three pages of googling, I only found, as I mentioned, that one other thread on the subject. I would, however, be very interested in following this if you could point me to a couple of the others. The problem could crop up with some of the computers on which I have I have installed Windows 10, locally, and it would be very helpful to know in the future, how to deal with it.

 

[John Spencer Yantiss]

OK. The final solution. Transfer all your private data to a safe place and make a completely fresh install of the OS
But. maybe with a little interaction, you and the other poster could possibly find an association with your computers which could account for it. Frankly, regarding your other comment, after two or three pages of googling, I only found, as I mentioned, that one other thread on the subject. I would, however, be very interested in following this if you could point me to a couple of the others. The problem could crop up with some of the computers on which I have I have installed Windows 10, locally, and it would be very helpful to know in the future, how to deal with it.

Are these the threads you found, and if there are even only a dozen or so postings that does not minimize the problem. We all know that those of us who post notices of PC issues, HW or SW, are few compared to the number of people actually experiencing such problems:

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...n/39d7cb64-f5c2-4417-a84e-71589a503674?auth=1

It seems from the above forum comments that I am far from being alone in seeing and experiencing the appearance of the non-existent Program Manager, and none of the possible causes is present with every user. Once again, this is a potentially serious issue, far beyond just the performance issues. Why is it there? If it is no longer a necessary part of Windows, why is it present? And if it is, why must MS pretend that it is not? Does not have the look of honesty upon it. Also, the performance problems are not small: When the cursor seems to drag and lag, as if it had some sort of stickum trailing from it, and there is periodic difficulty being precise in simple clicking, and page navigation, particularly Web navigation.

I appreciate all of your ideas and time, and concern, but there is a real problem here. Yes, I can backup everything to DVD or external, but why should I have to go through all of that if Program Manager is not present, and if it is not present why do I get the message that it must be shut down? It reminds me of the story about the guy walking along who sees another man carrying a big bunch of pink balloons. The first man asks the second, "Why are you carrying those pink balloons around?" The second guy responds, "To keep the elephants away." The first guy says, "But there aren't any elephants around here." The second guy says, "Yeah, it works!"

Does saying that there is no Program Manager make it so even if there is?!

 

[davehc]

That is the thread - the only one I could find. In fact, the contributions are only from 7 different individuals, one of whom appears to have solved the problem (or it has gone away) Two, I believe, are only referring to a delay in shutting down, and not to the program manager problem.
Not a bad score, in reality, if you consider the number of Windows Oss out there!

No offence or implication is intended here, but, to date, For those using the installations I have installed - a considerable number, have not experienced this . I would also add that, in the majority. they are very happy with Windows 10.