SOLVED General observation, W10,W11 situation.

[Mothie]

This situation caused by Microsoft of going back on it's own word , that W10 was the last edition of Windows, to me is truly reflected in every way by the manner within which they treat their coustomer base. Little bit similar in the Afghanistan business, in that case, the manner with which they treated their oldest and most loyal allies.
To wit, d'ont give a F---!!

In W11 situation, pain being caused not bringing in W11 so much as the financial damage to those people not prepared or not in a financial position to once again, buy new computers. this being errasabated by taking away W10 as an alternative, thus leaving NO alternative but BUY NEW or F off.
Pattern shown from XP right through to the present day.

I, for one, will never trust them again.

 

[clifford_cooley]

I, for one, will never trust them again.

I'm right there with you. Although my trust has been whittled away over the last 6 years or so.

 

[Mothie]

I Understand you well,friend. Mine goes back to Vista, then from there to present day.
Let us face it, there has always been the same sneaky pattern to Microsoft Operations.

 

[ubuysa]

The sole reason for Windows 11 is because new hardware security features have been introduced into the recent ranges of CPUs to prevent the kind of side-channel attacks we've seen in exploits like Spectre/Meltdown. Microsoft wants Windows to be able to take advantage of these newer hardware features to improve the security of the Windows platform. That's a good thing, right?

How do Microsoft implement these security updates then? if they issue an update to Windows 10 that requires these hardware security features in the CPU then everyone running an older PC without these hardware security features in their CPU would stop dead. That would be bad.

So Microsoft have decided to support two versions of Windows, at least up until 2025. Windows 10 will not contain the upgraded security and will not require the very latest CPUs with the newer hardware security features (or a TPM module). Windows 11 will contain the upgraded security features and thus will only run on CPUs that contain the newer hardware security features (and a TPM module). That seems to me to be the most sensible way to do this. It allows everyone to keep working.

Those PCs with older CPUs that don't support these newer features are already three years or more old and that means that in another four years time they will be a good seven years old, possibly older. Most people will be considering replacing their PC by the time it's 7 years old, certainly by 2025 the technology will have advanced so much that these older PCs will be well out of date and likely unable to support the newer hardware and/or software available then.

The ONLY disadvantage to the route Microsoft have gone down here is that those of us with older CPUs (and I'm one of them) will not be able to take advantage of the newer OS. So what? Windows 10 will still get updates. All my applications and devices will continue to work the way they do now. The sky will not fall in.

 

[clifford_cooley]

The sole reason for Windows 11 is because new hardware security features

I really don't care what their excuses are for slapping me in the face. They have been doing it for a decade. I'm tired of it. If they don't want to support my hardware. Fine! They can keep their OS. I'll find something else, should I ever need a new PC. If this machine ever fails me, MS will be history. I've bitched and moaned so much on this forum. Everyone here is tired of hearing it. Hell I'm tired of hearing it myself. Since MS doesn't want to cater to me. I have no choice but to stop coming to the party.

 

[Mothie]

Here here! Well said.
Lets face it, just another Microsoft conn as far as I am concerned. Need more money (greed). MARKETING: " Lets see what we can do to make a few 1,000,0000 have to buy new computers".

 

[ubuysa]

Sigh. There are conspiracy theorists everywhere these days...

 

[Mothie]

Facts as proven,friend, do not lie!

 

[corvairbob]

yes sir, google did the same ting with the chromebooks. they said they would support them forever and then because they did not sell as many new one they stopped supporting the old ones. my Chromebooks worked just fine. then one day i got an update and just like that it was 10 times slower than the day before. so i turned off updates on the others i had and for years they were still just as fast. but one day google figured out how to get that update into my other machines and now they are just as slow. so now i had to think about getting new chromebooks or going back to windows. so i went back to windows figuring they would keep things about the same. well now we know.

there is nothing wrong with any of my older computers. i have a desktop that is 20 years old and it runs win10 just as fast and good as my 7 year old laptops. they only do this to sell new machines.

 

[Iceboy]

Conspiracy, cheeky idiot. You either must loaded or daft. People haven't the money.. there's a pandemic and people are losing jobs, but you'll always get someone who'll agree the logic of microsoft. I thought my pc would take it according the health check but then they changed that again. I'll simply buy an Acer android/google mini laptop that last about eight years sod it.

 

[corvairbob]

go ahead iceboy you have plenty of money. so when the tires wear out on your car just go buy another one car. the changed the tire size never mine the car is still good.

most pc last a long time, just because they update the software if no reason to tos it out and get a new pc. may your one of those that has to get a new phone because they updated the software also.

not everyone has money falling out of there pockets.

 

[colin.p]

I just started using win 10 last March when I bought a refurb off newegg. I haven't really used windows since the XP days, been on ubuntu since 2008. So this is all fairly new to me. As far as 11 is concerned, not anytime soon and if I buy another refurb, it will be faster than what I have now. Think how fast linux will run...

It's funny that Google Chromebooks were mentioned as I was using a Haswell Dell Chromebox as a Plex client but it stopped getting updates in '19. It now runs GalliumOS and works great as my HTPC.

I find it rather amusing that MS is going to all this rigmarole just to try getting their OS more secure (of course forcing you to buy new hardware couldn't hurt). If they stopped setting up a new account as an admin and started with a limited user-account, then most of the security failures would be a lot less of a spectre (pun intended). Of course that's the way a real OS would do it. Linux has been doing this for years.

 

[Iceboy]

go ahead iceboy you have plenty of money. so when the tires wear out on your car just go buy another one car. the changed the tire size never mine the car is still good.

most pc last a long time, just because they update the software if no reason to tos it out and get a new pc. may your one of those that has to get a new phone because they updated the software also.

not everyone has money falling out of there pockets.

The one I'm thinking about is about £180, I don't call that a lot of money do you?..you stick your neck and enjoy microsoft while you can, because it'll now get more difficult to run any new software by microsoft. There's a lot of pc's won't run it or are you not watching the threads in this forum?. Sounds like your the one with plenty of money, a new computer and you criticise me haha.

 

[davehc]

I do. About a third of my monthly pension
If I could buy a new one, it would be very difficult anyway, to buy even a half performer, for that figure

 

[corvairbob]

I just started using win 10 last March when I bought a refurb off newegg. I haven't really used windows since the XP days, been on ubuntu since 2008. So this is all fairly new to me. As far as 11 is concerned, not anytime soon and if I buy another refurb, it will be faster than what I have now. Think how fast linux will run...

It's funny that Google Chromebooks were mentioned as I was using a Haswell Dell Chromebox as a Plex client but it stopped getting updates in '19. It now runs GalliumOS and works great as my HTPC.

I find it rather amusing that MS is going to all this rigmarole just to try getting their OS more secure (of course forcing you to buy new hardware couldn't hurt). If they stopped setting up a new account as an admin and started with a limited user-account, then most of the security failures would be a lot less of a spectre (pun intended). Of course that's the way a real OS would do it. Linux has been doing this for years.

i got a asus laptop off ebay a few months ago for cheap but that laptop was rea slow. i had to upgrade it to 21? that took a bit of doing but got it. i got chrome on it and it did fairly well but slower than the chromebooks i have so i put it on the shelf for now. i may pull the drive and put it in one of my probooks and see how well it does and if it does good i will just get new ssd drives and install linux on all of them and be done with it. i had to run a video program and linux would not install it so i had to use windows for that, but i guess i can keep one laptop with win10 on it just for the occasional must have os. i forget the os i have from linux but it is one the linux guys said most resembled windows. the only thing that is bad about linux is they have so many different os versions that it is hard to find one the just works. maybe by the time win10 is out of updates linux will have a os that just works. it might be that some of the developers will start making the os just run without having to do so much keyboarding. thanks.

 

[ubuysa]

Conspiracy, cheeky idiot. You either must loaded or daft. People haven't the money.. there's a pandemic and people are losing jobs, but you'll always get someone who'll agree the logic of microsoft. I thought my pc would take it according the health check but then they changed that again. I'll simply buy an Acer android/google mini laptop that last about eight years sod it.

Calling me a 'cheeky idiot' is a bit strong don't you think? I'm not the idiot here, you're the one who doesn't seem to understand why only newer CPU's can fully support Windows 11, despite my trying to explain it. How would you introduce additional security features into Windows that require the hardware support found only in newer CPUs?! If there's a better way I'm sure Microsoft would want to hear it.

You have a choice, nobody is forcing you to do anything. You don't have to install Windows 11, you can continue running Windows 10 fully supported on whatever PC you have for another 4 years and the sky won't fall in. Or you can decide that Windows 11 is so important to you that you go out any buy a new PC with the hardware support that Windows 11 requires.

Nobody is forcing you to upgrade your PC, not for a good while anyway, unless you can't live without Windows 11. My CPU is not supported for example, so I'll be running WIndows 10 for the foreseeable future. My PC is over three years old now, in another 4 years I will definitely be looking to upgrade for all sorts of other reasons (mostly improved hardware performance, like PCIe 4.0 for example) and it's at that point that I'll migrate to Windows 11.

 

[clifford_cooley]

If there's a better way I'm sure Microsoft would want to hear it.

No they wouldn't! User choice is the better way. They have proven time and time again. They don't care about user choice. It's their way or the highway. By God, I'm ready to take the highway.

 

[davehc]

" why only newer CPU's can fully support Windows 11"

Maybe you have that the wrong way round. As I read he story - Windows 11 has been scripted so that it only supports the newer CPU's/Computers.
fwiw. It is a modern trend to follow a policy of "Out with the old, In with the new"

I would guess that any members are on these pages because they have all updated from earlier OS's - primarily back as far as Windows 7. It has little to do with whether they actually need an update. I am sure, inmost cases, it is just a very normal desire to move on.
Totally unrelated. My wife has just forced me into buying a new sofa set. I was very happy with the old one - it fitted my grooves perfectly. She said it looked shameful. Probably right.

 

[davehc]

No they wouldn't! User choice is the better way. They have proven time and time again. They don't care about user choice. It's their way or the highway. By God, I'm ready to take the highway.

It is probably something to do with the way they now push the development out to the general public.

Back in the pre Windows 7 days, I was chosen, with a very large number of others, to be a Beta tester for the up and coming new OS. This was based on the value of contributions to Microsoft's own pages but the internet in general.
Any feedback was normally met with a response and explanation as to why it wasn't going to happen.
If, on the other hand, you did not contribute, it wasn't long before you were removed from the scheme.

Today, with millions of so called beta testers, that philosophy cannot work. I suggest the deem not to reply to feedback on an early release, with a tester asking where he needs to look to change the background colour..etc.
Users choice has become to much of a very large overall issue.

 

[Iceboy]

So is everything microsoft by default on win11?..Would you be able to use another browser?, because looking in the microsoft store it puts a price on firefox.